Artist Interview: Jill Jennings
03rd June 2011
Look11 Volunteer Interview with artist Jill Jennings, Thursday 26th May 2011
Question:
How did the Project (Restricted Access) come about?
A: It evolved from a chance opportunity. It was incredibly rare to get access to the Maze/Long Kesh because it was a high security prison where they didn’t allow cameras for anyone whether it was staff, prisoners or visitors. It was at the point when the prisoners where starting to be released as part of the ‘Good Friday’ agreement, so it was a really unique opportunity to get in. At the time I had maybe an hour and I had three visits to go round, with a camera, to photograph some of the cells just after some of the prisoners had left and before the cells where cleared and painted white again, just in case they were needed again.
Q: Were they the photos of the cells with the murals?
A: Yes. The thing about the prison was it was fairly unique in a number of ways, but towards the end, because of the 90’s, the prison where political prisoners where recognised as special category status, which meant they were able to wear their own clothes and they had various privileges where they could basically run the cells, through their own para military groupings so their cells were decorated towards political allegiances
It wasn’t always like that, there were still prisoners there but not in the part of the prison that I was allowed access to. It was still a functioning prison but
things were changing towards a more peaceful time.
Q: And what was the atmosphere like in the prison back in 1998, was it still quite fraught?
A: Well it’s hard to gauge that, there was a lot of security. I think there was about eighteen gates to get through, to get to one of the ‘H’ blocks I went to to take photographs so it took a while to get there. It was a high security prison and there were still prisoners there and it was still functioning but, the atmosphere, when you walk in is just overwhelming, steel and concrete and it’s very grey. It’s very dominating architecture and very disorienting as well, so there is quite a contrast from outside and then you see inside the cells.
Q: So did you have preconceived ideas before you went in about what you would see?
A: Not really no. I mean I’ve never been inside a prison, luckily enough, so I mean any prison would have been interesting, but I think this prison was that bit different and I’d seen pictures of the hunger strikers; Bobby Sands died and everything associated with that and the news and media that come with that so it was quite interesting to be in a place 10 miles from where I had been brought up, and to see inside something like that, for me, was really quite interesting and moving as well.
Q: So you did feel quite connected to the space on a personal level.
A: I think anyone who lived in northern irleand would feel a certain connection with the place as it was so winded up with what happened with the politics and the history of the Troubles, that I think there was a certain connection with every one. But I didn’t have any particular connection with it unlike some of the families or prison officers or anyone who worked there.
Q: You mentioned in the description provided about the work, that it was one of the only prisons to have a connection to the community outside it, unlike place like Guantanamo Bay.
A: I think that events both inside and outside where linked in that, what was going on in the streets and communities and inside the prison were linked. And even right through to the peace process.
Q: So it was a 360 acre prison.
A: Yes, it’s a huge site. It’s about 10 miles out of Belfast, in place called Lisburn, on the outskirts and it’s in a little village called Maze.
Q: And why does it have two names, ‘Maze/Long Kesh’?
A: The maze was built, I think the 70’s, …… it was originally Long Kesh prison and Long Kesh was once an airfield at one point in the second world war, then it was Long Kesh prison for quite a few years, when the troubles broke out and at this point prisoners didn’t have categories status, and that all changed when the Maze was build and internment was brought in and it changed. The maze was where they put special category prisoners, which meant, they had been taken away and treated as common criminals instead of political. So at the start the republicans didn’t recognise the maze as the name because it was associated with taking away their rights as prisoners.
Q: So what were the special categories? Were they prisoners of war?
A: Well that’s how the prisoners saw themselves, so that’s what the hunger strikers were all about. Being recognised as fighting for a cause.
Q: Did you sympathise with the prisoners when going in to that environment? Normally on the news you would just see the bombing and people behind it, but then going in there did you feel the slightest bit sorry for them?
A: That’s a very difficult question. I think a lot of what happened in the Troubles was a really terrible time. It’s a very difficult question because there’s a lot of innocent people who where killed and weren’t associated to any particular allegiance or had just been shot dead because of their religion or walking down the wrong street at the wrong time. It’s a very difficult question I don’t think I’m in a position to answer it.
Q: How do you feel about the exhibition (Restricted Access) as a whole, being with Paul Seawright and Victor Sloan? Your work is shown differently to them, theirs being in print format and yours as a slide show. Do you feel that’s the only way to show your work or would you like to show it print form?
A: Well I deliberately put it together like that, as a projection piece, cause I felt it needed to tell a bit of a story a bit of narrative and I felt that I would of needed to put up a lot of prints to say the same thing. At the end of the day because it has gone (there are parts of it retained to turn into a conflict transformation centre which will happen in the future) but because it has gone, it was kind of temporary…to project the images on to a blank wall was a way reflecting on the work because not a lot of it is there anymore. But I always think it’s interesting to see it that big, that much bigger and hopefully you get a sense of what it was like too to be in that space.
Q: Their work is very different to yours, Sloan’s work has a sense of violence with the attacking of bleach and then Seawright’s work is kind of crisper and cleaner.
A: Well I think it’s got some of the same crossovers of the ambiguity is similar and I think there are similarities but they are that bit different as well.
Q: And whereabouts do you see your work? Do you see it as a form of achieving with the letterboxes with the way you frame it and way it’s done, is that possibly done that way?
A: I think because the project evolved because I didn’t know if I was ever going to get back again, so each time the trip was quite precious and it also quite short amount of time I had in there. Later on when it was derelict, I was accompanied, so there where certain places I could go, so I had to sort of make something from it. It is personal but hopefully it says something about the place.
Q: So were you watched when you went round?
A: Well wasn’t watched as such it was with the regenerations office so it was partly health and safety. It was a huge site sort of decaying and water coming in and not that safe. But I still had a lot of freedom and the more you went and got to know people the more freedom you had. I was very grateful for getting access because even then it was quite difficult. There was prison tours at one point, but only in specific places and for ex prisoners or for Members of Parliament to come in because at that point the prison was still being decided about 2005/06
Q: What’s the sort of state of the place now is it a derelict space now where anyone can walk around?
A: Well no, it’s closed off and you can’t wander around. I have applied to revisit it but haven’t heard back yet. But it’s still a security site. A lot of it has been demolished and there has been a lot of rumours about the space. There were rumours of a sports stadium at one point. That’s apparently fallen through.
Q: Do you have any opinion in what the site should be used for?
A: Not really, no, sorry. I mean the conflict centre will be interesting and great for people to see some of the history and some of the buildings but in a way it’s a shame it wasn’t kept in its entirety.
Q: It’s quite like these hill forts ( Donovan Wylies work), fantastically evocative sculptures but I think it’s symbolic and important that they were taken down.
A: Yer, they needed to be taken away those. They weren’t part of the landscape.
Q: You went twice to the maze in 1998 and 2006. Did you have the same emotions each time you went or did the different trips produce different emotions?
A: I just find it a really fascinating place, I thought it was really interesting, It didn’t really evolve into a project in 2000 I just put those images in a file. I moved to England in-between and I think when I was in England I thought about going back and doing something on Northern Ireland now that I was no longer living there.
Q: So would you go back to the prison?
A: Well I have applied to go back but I think in some ways, I think that the project has concluded. You could in theory continue it for many years to come.
Q: see what the porridge looks like
A: yer I know, just see the grass will get longer. But I think you have to put an end to it at some point.
It’s quite hard to talk about the work actually cos it’s quite a hard piece too talk about.
Q: It’s quite symbolic of the Troubles because it’s all decaying and the fact that the building is decaying is a reference to the troubles dying out. Religion isn’t as important as it use to be in Northern Ireland or is it?
A: Yer, I don’t think it goes away over night. I think you’re kind of brought up in one community or another, there’s still segregations, but not as much as there was.
Jill Jennings exhibits Restricted Access at LJMU Art & Design Academy until 18th June
http://www.look2011.co.uk/whats-on/restricted-access-images-by-jill-jennings/
